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We interrupt this fun discussion about sex scenes because I'm really ticked off.
How many of you think authors are millionaires? Please raise your hands.
The truth is that few novelists are millionaires. Most juggle the demands of a job — full-time or maybe part-time — while writing books. They depend on the extra money they receive from their books to pay bills and save up money for their kids' college or maybe their own retirement. I pay bills and some college tuition.
Unfortunately, it's getting harder and harder to make a decent living off writing novels these days, not because no one is reading books, but rather because so many people are stealing books.
Here's a news flash for those who are slow on the uptake: IF YOU DOWNLOAD BOOKS OFF THE INTERNET WITHOUT PAYING FOR THEM, YOU ARE STEALING.
I wrote about this last winter when another author brought a particular file-sharing site to my attention. The sight had thousands of romance novels on it, all of them pirated. I emailed the person who had shared illegal versions of my books and explained to her that what she was doing was illegal. I suggested she come to my modest three-bedroom home and steal directly from me. That would be more honest than doing it from a distance. She claimed to be mortified, and the files disappeared.
Now there are several additional sites sharing copies of my books. The only electronic format for my books at this point is Kindle, so anyone who has any other version (who didn't receive it from me) is a thief.
Right now a site called Demonoid.com is offering my historicals, while another site is offering everything I've ever written. My publishers have written to these people, but, although many of the users are here, one of the sites is located in Singapore.
Reading through the posts on the Singapore site, astatalk.com, it was obvious to me that the women who were downloading these files thought they were "sticking it to the millionaires" in the publishing industry. Also, they're doing what they can to hide their footprints, limiting membership and encouraging members to "hide their links."
Demonoid.com is obviously a "members-only" site that you can join if you're invited by someone who's already a member. That must be their way of protecting themselves from scrutiny for the illegal content they provide. What's even more sickening is that they are making money through advertising by providing my books illegally to others.
In reality, they're not sticking it to millionaires; they're sticking it to me. Every book they steal is a book I don't get paid for. Every book they steal is a book I don't get credit for, thus making it seem to my publishers that there's less interest in my novels than there truly is. While I spend every free moment I have trying to turn out novels that people will enjoy, they take advantage of that work for the petty gain of a handful of dollars.
Although publishers are trying to go after the supply side, I guess it's up to writers and other (honest) readers to go after the demand side by letting our readers and friends know that stealing books is wrong and shouldn't be tolerated.
Here's the bottom line: You don't have a right to any author's work unless you pay for it. If you don't like that, watch more TV. If you don't pay for books, you hurt the very industry that produces them for you and the authors who work their butts off trying to share stories with you.
As of this moment, both sites still contain illegal links to my books, including a copy of Ride the Fire that was scanned in page by page.
It really, really pisses me off.
I welcome ideas on how to deal with these two sites and how to address the issue of stealing books in general. It's an issue I might take up as an investigative reporter. I'd just love to land on the doorsteps of the people who posted my work on these sites. It could be really amusing. Maybe I can walk in their front doors, go to their refrigerators and steal food from them, which is what they're doing to me.
I know none of my FOPs and no one who regularly posts here are among the readers who are stealing books. You all rock. And I would appreciate whatever anyone can do to raise awareness about the harm that is done to authors when people steal. Perhaps then fewer people will participate in this organized theft.
I know people actively search for these file-sharing sites because my blog keeps a record of the word searches that bring people here. "Free Pamela Clare downloads" is a frequent search term, as is (perversely) "prison strip search." (There's always at least one person who logs on here every week to read the account of my being strip searched in jail. Do they wank? I don't want to know.)
Hopefully, karma will sneak a little virus in to each of the illegal downloads on these sites, destroying the computers of anyone who steals romance novels or any other kind of literature.
UPDATE:
Just as I was decided I needed to mellow out, I got an email from another author who gave me a link to this site: http://www.4shared.com/. There are eight of my novels, some the Spanish translations, that are available for free download. I've already notified the site that this represents copyright infringement.
One of the people who posted the books has a Blogger site on which she declares (in Spanish) that her blog is dedicated to the belief that books should be free to everyone. She offers information as to where people can download the books she reviews for free.
Let me get this straight: Authors work their butts off to write good books, relying on sales from those books to eat. But she thinks books should be available for free, as if that's some kind of activist stance. But who is going to reward authors and help them put food on the table if their books are distributed for free? Should farmers' vegetables be available for free to anyone who runs into their fields to harvest them? Should clothing on the racks in stores be distributed for free to anyone who wants it? How about cars? Should there be free cars for everyone?
I'm going to report this blogger to Blogger/Google, but I'm not sure what they'll do, given that she isn't actually providing the books from her blog.
Thanks to everyone who has posted for your support. You rock. I've met so many wonderful people through writing, and you're each such a blessing in my life. The people who steal books are a small but growing group. It seems a new site is being brought to my attention every single day now.
48 comments:
I find it sad that people who wouldn't steal money from your purse in the supermarket checkout line will steal it by pirating books. I don't buy that they don't realize it's wrong. They're taking what isn't theirs.
A member of our local RWA chapter recently discovered that her books had been uploaded to Demonoid and 4000 COPIES had been downloaded. She was beyond furious. I'm not sure if it was demonoid, scribd or wattpad, but it doesn't matter. Some of these readers actually post glowing reviews of the books they steal on Amazon and other review sites. Unbelieveable. And authors who protest have been known to have their websites hacked and suffer other forms of retribution from these e-criminals.
Suck isn't a strong enough word for them.
You say it, girlfriend. damn straight.
One reason I'm very frustrated as well, and backing down off my writing schedule. If you and I wanted our books to be free, we'd just post them on the internet.
My books are pirated as well. Trying to find the people responsible is like herding cats.
If you steal books, you do suck. Big time. Hang in there!
Argh, meant to write, Hang in there Pamela.
My brain is tired these days, lol.
Linda, that is so true! WTF?
They don't even think of themselves as stealing. I've read some of their posts, and they're indignant that anyone would DARE suggest that they're doing anything wrong. It makes me wonder if we're looking at an IQ problem here. Obviously, it's stealing, but they don't see it that way. They believe they're entitled to read the books they want to read, to load the music they want to listen to onto their MP3 players and to watch whatever movie they want to watch — without paying for it.
The truth is, no one is entitled to those things any more than I'm entitled to go into their homes and take, oh, say, their stereos or TVs or laptops.
Thanks, Linda. I really appreciate your support.
Hi, Bonnie! Thanks so much! It's good to see you! I'm not surprised your books are being stolen, too. I saw literally THOUSANDS of books on one of these sites. THOUSANDS. I really think the publishing industry needs to take a clue from the music industry and prosecute!
Oh, Linda, I just had to add that your friend finding 4000 illegal downloads -- that must have felt so frustrating! While I've been trying to get these taken down, I've been watching the number of downloads go up. ARGH!
OK, I have the rope, you find them and we'll string them up! How DARE they do this to any author! People have fewer morals and scruples as the years progress.
I will do what I can to get the word out.
Hugs to all authors!
I absolutely hate people who download illegal books. The sad part is sometimes the people downloading them don't even realize it's illegal. I used to work in a computer lab and people tried to make DVDs out of downloaded movies all the time and had no idea it was, in fact, copyright infringement. It's actually pretty sad. Just don't forget, for each of those kinds or pathetic people, you have dedicated fans too!
I actually picked up the first book I read of yours in a used book store, and after devouring it, I ran out to a regular book store and bought two new copies, because after loving the books so much, I wanted to make sure I helped out in my own small way. So, hey, at least not all of us lack moral fiber!
OMG this is awful!!! I am so sorry that this is happening! I really hope that you can get it stopped!
How can people think this is right? We buy/read books by authors to get enjoyment and by doing so hopefully encouraging that person to write more so we can escape into their stories again and again!!
Pamela and Bonnie I really hope that you both can get your books taken down from these sites and that your sales go back up!
*hugs* to you both you are both amazing and I love what you both do! And can I just say Thank you for what you do!
I am so sorry about this Pamela. Stealing is the one thing that really pisses me off big time.
And really, even if you were a millionaire, it would not diminish your right to earn your just income for having written a book that is unique to you. You have a talent, you use it and what you earn is rightfully yours.
First thing first : (((((hugs))))) Pamela. Huge ones.
I do think that the ones who have the power to make things change are 1/the publishing houses and 2/ the government. I honestly don't think that talking to those who download illegally to make them realise that what they do is wrong will help ... much. They know it's wrong. All the people I've been talking to realise that it is wrong and stealing. But they don't care. People who download novels/music/films do it because they know fully well that there's no risk for them to get caught. Linda A said that those same people wouldn't steal from your purse. She's right. But they wouldn't do it out of morality. They wouldn't mostly because there's a great risk to get caught, and to have to deal with justice. The internet gives them a sense of impunity(right word?). If there was a way to sue them, if there was a risk for them to get caught and face justice, (like what would happen if they broke into your house and stole your DVD player/TV set) they might think twice about it.
They are trying to pass a law here so that illegal file sharing might actually be punished. It involves the cooperation of the internet providers. First time you're caught they send you a warning, then if you do it again they simply shut down your connection for a certain amount of time (while you still pay for your subscription), and there's a fine to pay too. (hefty from what I remember) It hasn't been passed yet for lots of political (and practical) reasons but it shows that something can be done.
What I don't understand is why someone would spend time scanning books. And to gain what in the end? A paperback is only a few bucks/euro!!
stef
I had no idea that crap was going on? I remember the big stink over the music industry and the legitimate sites cleaned up but I am sure, just like in this case, there are millions out there still illegally downloading. I think that totally STINKS for you, Bonnie and all the other violated authors. I am sorry to hear that, once again, there are really dishonest people out there who are willing to make (or take, as the case may be) a buck from such hardworking people. It is very discouraging. :-(
But regardless, keep writing away for those of us who love your work. :-)
I have a friend who is a photographer who says the same thing about photos. This makes me feel very guilty because I have taken photos I've found on the internet and used them to decorate my MySpace and such. Using a picture without permission is the same as publishing a book on line without permission/purchasing it is an artistic/intellectual expression of an individual. It is particularly challenging when a photo has been used by so many people that you have no way of figuring out who the original photographer was to even ask permission of them.
The internet can be such a blessing at the same time as providing potential for so much abuse.
Doh! That anonymous was me. Sorry.
Christy said what I was going to. How is this any different than the music industry getting the free download declared illegal and having action taken against those who downloaded free music. To quote my father, "Nothing in life is free Sunshine."
I'm so sorry Pam. ((((hugs)))
I posted a reminder to my friends about this issue on Facebook.
The really sad thing is you can get books for free. FROM LIBRARIES! I know lots of people whose love of books outpaces their book budget and they all manage to get their fix by borrowing from libraries or friends. The book pirates are more concerned with beating the "system" and screwing the big corporations. They never consider that the people really being screwed are the artists, not the corporations!
Well, downloading books for free is bad enough but here's something else that doesn't seem right to me.
I've read reviews on Amazon where the reviewers have stated that they didn't enjoy the books they read. In fact they hated them so much that they returned them to the store (I think one mentioned Borders and the other Barnes & Noble) for a refund.
If that's true, it's absolutely ridiculous that stores accept returns on books. If I returned all the books I didn't like, I could probably afford a trip to Europe.
I think that's also a form of stealing from the author.
There's no refund on movies you don't like...
Oms hon I'm so sorry to hear about this. That's just wrong. And they actually SCANNED every page good grief do you realize how much time that would take that's just crazy. Goodness I'll never understand people. And I don't want to if they are doing things like this. I'm sorry hon I hope they get them and make them take those down they should have to pay a fine as well that's just awful.
(Sorry I have been MIA again I've been swamped with work. whew)
JennJ
JennJ
Wow. Okay, first you have every right to be pissed. It sucks because with these particular sites it seems like for everyone that is shut down, another is put up.
The internet is both very beneficial and yet, can be a very bad thing at the same time.
I now so many hard working authors out there are suffering from the same drama. Someone had mentioned to me that RWA online has a section for this for members. I don't know if you've checked it out yet, or if it will even be any help but it's worth a shot.
((hugs))
Hugs, Pamela!
Very well said--I've read about this issue before from other authors, and every time it make me so angry that there are ungrateful readers out there who believe it their right to have the product of other people's hard work for free. What sort of bizarre world do they envision? They're obviously delusional to think that what they're doing isn't criminal! May their servers crash horribly and unrecoverably and their book collections suffer from mildew and bookworms.
Hi Pamela!
I read about your post at Barbara's and wanted to stop by and offer my support to you and other authors who are dealing with this!
It makes me (as a reader) so angry to hear about this happening! I don't get how anyone would think this is ok to do. I don't buy that they don't know it is wrong either, IT IS STEALING!!
I also found this through Barbara's site...this makes me so angry! Thank you for posting about it..there is a lot we can do as a blogging community..hopefully something will happen.
I'm a huge e-book fan, so the other thing that really upsets me about this is that the publishers will -- very understandably -- use this type of criminal activity as a reason for not moving ahead with e-publishing. So the thieves are not only affecting the authors -- who are most affected, of course -- but those of us who want to see e-publishing thrive.
Pamela, you commented that the only authorized electronic versions of your books are for Kindle. But three of your books are available on Fictionwise.com, an extremely reputable ebook etailer, in a variety of electronic formats that will work on a number of devices. (I know because I bought them all there, and I don't have a Kindle.)
I would love to see your backlist available as ebooks (for legal purchase). Right now I get them from used bookstores; if they were ebooks, I'd at least know you were profiting from my purchase.
Im sorry to hear that you are experiencing this kind of trouble. It is really sad that people think they should get everything just handed to them.
Claudia made a comment about people getting refunds for books that they returned to the store after reading and hating. I think that some stores are cracking down on book returns. Right after Christmas I was returning something at Wal-Mart when an elderly lady walked up with a paperback book she said she received as a gift but already had. They refused to let her return it, said that it was copy right issues that they were cracking down on and that Wal Mart would not do returns or exchanges on paperback books. I questioned it, because I had recently returned a book to the same location only a few months prior for the same reason. The customer service person just said that they were no longer allowed to return books.
Hi, Debbie H — Thanks! I really appreciate it. I hope you're enjoying a long weekend with the grandbabies.
Hi, Rachel — Thanks for posting! Interesting that people at the computer lab didn't seem to realize that what they were doing was wrong. Welcome to the age of electronic media, I guess. Back when CDs and DVDs first came out (does saying that make me sound old??) I knew people who tried to make copies but everyone knew it was illegal. That was pre-Internet.
I'm so glad you enjoyed the stories enough to buy them. That means a lot to me. And I know that honest, good-hearted people outnumber the people stealing books. Thanks!
Hi, Amanda — Thanks for the hugs and for the sweet words. You're welcome! I would probably still write books even if I couldn't make a dime off it, because I have all of these stories I want to tell, all of these people in my head who want their stories told. But it sure helps to be able to buy groceries at the end of the day, you know?
Hi, Luci — Thank you! And you make a good point. There's no difference morally between stealing a book from me or Bonnie and stealing one from Nora Roberts or Lisa Kleypas. You're so right about that!
Hi, Stef — Thanks for the hugs. You raise a bunch of interesting points. You're right that people do it because they have a sense of impunity. You're also right, I think, that it's going to require a change in laws and some action on the part of publishers. Right now, copyright law is so ridiculous. I have to PERSONALLY request that my titles be removed. Every single author (or their publisher) has to file a copyright infringement claim and request that their titles be removed. So maybe mine have come down (I haven't checked today), but hundreds of other titles by other authors are still up. I can't say, "Hey, you're pirating!" and then expect them to stop it.
Interesting approach France is taking. I think blocking certain websites from out of the country (like these from Singapore) and shutting down offenders' Internet connections -- plus fines -- would probably go a long way toward resolving the problem.
But you know I think about this, and then I think about child sex trafficking, and I think this isn't such a priority. :-/
Hi, Christi — Thanks! And, believe me, I will. :-)
Hi, Rita — I think the problem is worse for photos. I've probably used images I didn't have a right to use. I've been trying very conscientiously to have my own or to buy them from Dreamstime, but I didn't always do that until it dawned on me one day that Google isn't a free source of photos. I answered my own poll and held myself accountable there for that. Thanks for that reminder. Images represent someone's hard work, too. And thanks for posting on Facebook!
Hi, Ronlyn — Your dad was right! LOL! Thanks. The music industry has been much more proactive than the publishing industry, in part, I think, because it's been happening to them longer and because it happens to them more frequently. This is a new thing for the publishing industry. If you look at the results of my new poll, more people have taken MP3 files than anything else.
Anonymous (Rita again? Stef?), you make a point I wish I had made. Libraries are FREE! That's what they're there for. The whole "books should be free" thing from that one woman's blog is so outrageous precisely because they ARE free — at the library. Thanks for making that point! And you're right — it's the little people. For a new author, 4,000 books represents a sizable chunk of sales — books that won't count toward helping that author get a new contract. For mid-list authors, that many books is enough to keep you off a bestseller list. Every single one makes a difference.
Hi, Claudia — And welcome! Wow, that's something I hadn't heard about. Returning books? I've heard people make comments about it. I guess I thought they were being dramatic or sarcastic. Can you imagine if you could get your money back if you didn't like a movie? LOL!
I can understand people's reluctance to spend money on a product they might not like. What if you buy a book and it stinks? Well, don't buy other books by that author. That's why we have book reviews — and used book stores and libraries.
Hi, Jenn — YES, can you believe that? Scanning every single page of RTF? Someone had WAY too much time on her hands. It was a giant PDF document. I downloaded illegal versions of EXTREME EXPOSURE and HARD EVIDENCE in Spanish, and they had made cute little covers for them. How nice. Good to see you! And thanks! Don't work too hard!
Hi, Barbara — Thank you so much for your blog post! Raising awareness about this is at least one small way of combatting it. I really appreciate your support. I didn't know about the RWA thing. I will check it out. I'm a member, but I don't spend much time at their site.
Hi, Flchen — You made me laugh. Bookworms? LOL! Yes, what a bizarre world. If things are free because we want them, then I need to head to the mall because there's a lot of diamond jewelry I could be wearing. Also, there's a castle in France that I find so pretty I want to move in tomorrow. As someone who works very hard for every dime I make in order to support myself and my younger son, I know it's hard to make ends meet. But trying to balance your checkbook by stealing from someone else just isn't right.
Hi, Blanche — Thank you so much for stopping by and offering your support. It really means a lot to me. :-)
Hi, Mandi — Thanks! I hadn't thought about approaching this as a blogging community when I posted. I was just so angry I had to vent and say something about it. But I think that letting people know it's wrong and speaking out as bloggers might reach some folks who hadn't given much thought to what they were doing. At least it lets book pirates know that some of us are on to what they're doing.
Hi, Statch — Thank you so much for stopping by and for sharing your thoughts as an e-book reader. I hadn't thought about the impact on the e-book industry. Hopefully, publishers will find a way to address it without pulling back on e-books. I know a lot of readers who prefer them.
I had no idea my books were in any other format. Thanks for letting me know. (Half the time I learn things from my readers. Seriously! When the release date for NAKED EDGE moved, I heard it from a reader, not my publisher. And I had no idea that SURRENDER and UNTAMED were available in French until a French person told me.)
I've asked my publisher to get my backlist into e-book format, but it's taking a long, long time. As far as I know, it's just my latest historicals, plus the I-Team series that are in e-book format. I'll keep bugging them! And thanks again!
Hi, Heather D — Interesting that Wal-Mart seems to be changing its policy. I didn't know much about people returning books, and I guess if someone read something I'd written and hated it that much, I'd want them to have a refund. But I can see why publishers would view it as a copyright issue. Thanks for posting! And thanks for your support.
To all of those who are reading this, whether you post or not, thanks very much for your support. It means so much to me.
Thanks, too, for supporting the authors you love. I'm certainly not the only author whose work is being pirated. Pretty much everyone who's in print is at risk at this point, and the sites I perused were as well stocked as any bookstore with titles from dozens upon dozens of authors.
Ironically, my posting the web addresses of these places has resulted in some people searching their way HERE in hopes of getting free illegal downloads. To you, I say this: please reconsider what you're doing. It is stealing, and stealing is wrong, whether you get caught or not.
Thanks, everyone.
Wow, Blogger made me cut my post into three parts! I didn't realize I was being so long-winded. LOL!
Oh wow, geez. I'm all about sharing and saving money but to download books that were not offered legitimately as a free download by the author or publisher just gets me speechless. I never understand how people have so much time to devote to pirating music, books, pictures, etc. I barely have enough time in a day to get my chores done and I have to push to get any reading in, how does anyone have so much time to rip pages out of a book and scan all hundreds of pages much less numerous other books???
Another thing, why do people return books they have read? That's just WRONG on so many levels. I have nearly 900 books, of which half I could return because I did not enjoy but...I did read them so why should I get to return something which I reaped a benefit out of? Regardless of whether I found any enjoyment out of my purchase, I did utilize the purchase which was the reason for purchasing the book. Furthermore, there are so many bookstores nowadays that allow readers to check out a book while at the store (of which I'm not a fan of but I digress) so for one to say that they did not enjoy the book and should be able to return it after taking it home just appalls me.
I hope these sites that illegally pirate your books (and any other authors' works) would be shut down. I am a big fan of your I-Team books and would love to see you continue your writing of the series -- and any other series or singles you produce in the future!
Hi, Tabitha — Thanks so much! I'm so glad you've enjoyed the I-Team books. :-)
Yes, I've wondered, too, where these people get their free time. I cannot imagine scanning a 400-page book page by page. Thanks, but I'm too busy for that!
The good news is that a lot of the links that sparked this post have been taken down. That doesn't mean those same people won't go out and find another site to put them on. And it doesn't stop them from emailing electronic versions of the stories to their friends. But it does put a temporary stop to their illegal activity.
I know some people probably think I'm being completely uptight to object to this. But they're not having income removed from their pockets. Like I said, they can come steal milk and eggs from my refrigerator, because it's the same thing in the end as stealing books.
Here's a suggestion Pamela - why don't you contact all public libraries and demand that they start charging a fee for every book that is loaned out?
Noone who uploads a book onto the internet steals that book from anywhere - be it your publishers' warehouse, a bookstore, a library, your home, your car or your refrigerator. It was purchased (yes with money) in some form just like the public libraries purchases their books.
You may not like that it was scanned when your whole purpose for only selling hard copy is to prevent uploading, but such is life.
If you have a problem with a single copy of your book being read by multiple readers then you need to get 'honest' and not use your public library, nor share books with your friends, relatives etc. - the one purchased book-one reader policy should apply across the board.
Pamela - this is an issue for your publishers to deal with. They by your own admission are not 'taking the bull by the horns' so you feel quite righteous in resorting to vigilantism. Good move girl, you're on the way to making this world a better place.
What really makes you believe that every book that is downloaded from the internet IS ACTUALLY READ? Just like every book that is borrowed from a public library or every book that is bought IS ACTUALLY EVER READ. Humm?
Furthermore, the people who download the books either don't have access to buy them wherever they are - therefore their money COULD NEVER BECOME YOUR MONEY - they are simply not in the spending pool. Or they cannot afford the high price or prefer to have a read - like they would in the library or in a bookstore - before they decide if they want to buy.
And yes though you probably feel quite justified in demonizing downloaders/uploaders, if someone downloads a book and really likes it, has access to buy at a price they can afford, many will buy a hard copy of the book. Hardcopy for many is always better.
Your perception of your own righteous honesty compared to others is simply that - a perception. You are no more or less honest that the average Joe or should that be Joanna.
Furthermore, these internet sites give your books a visibility that your publisher does not.
Many people who use the internet to get books became aware of authors that way and gleen something about the popularity of the book by how many times it's been download.
By the way many authors do see the internet as a positive thing and are grateful for the increased visibility and access to their books and thereby resulting increased sales.
Ponder this - People can only buy what they know is available - and internet downloading sites are just one source that people use to access information (among other things).
I put it to you that your perception that books downloaded/uploaded onto the internet is causing you a loss of revenue is simply a reflection of your inner fear that the economy is collapsing and then where will you be?
By fixating on this you are creating a sinkhole of lack, of want, of need, of deprivation for yourself and those around you - both spiritually and temporally.
Do you have actual proof that this is indeed so. What about an alternative perspective? That by giving your books exposure - you have actually seen an increase in revenue. Do you know for sure that this is not so?
Do yourself a favor and get your mind under control. Be grateful for the books that have been sold and for the internet readers who will purchase a book in the future.
Ask your publisher for a larger cut humm? But this is a sticky wicket isn't it? Not willing to bite the had that feeds you but you are willing to kick the dog that you think is getting in your way. Not a positive attitude and rather self-demeaning.
As for Bonnie - not writing books may indeed increase your income. If writing books is so hard, tedious and such a chore for you, then you really need to do yourself a favor and do something else. Find your bliss and go with it. The universe will open it's doors to you. I wish you all the best.
Some things to think about.
To all of the readers who claim to be honest, devoted fans and want to continue reading your work.
If Pamela were to start selling her unpublished work in electronig form through her blogspot - would you continue to come back to her site and buy them?
You may have another source of income here Pamela. Think about it.
Pamela I forgot to say .....
If you were to sell unpublished electronic books on the internet then you wouldn't need to have this worry, this fear of them reaching the internet since all of your fans on this site claim to be upright, honest people.
Therefore, NONE of them would allow a copy of their or would it be your book to be uploaded onto the internet where anyone can have public access - possibly only their select friend, their sister, their co-worker maybe?
So don't sweat it. If this can generate income for you, why not try it. Other authors certainly are doing it.
To all the self-righteous individuals who want to block all internet sites that contain pornography. Has it ever crossed your mind that the content of Pamela's books (and other authors like her) are highly offensive to some people?
However, you still have the right and freedom to read them and she still has the right and freedom to sell them. There are many who think that the days of Nathaniel Hawthorn and his Scarlet Letter are sadly gone.
Be careful what you wish for. CENSORSHIP ONCE UNLEASHED KNOWS NO BOUNDS!
In Milton Mayer's book, They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (Chicago: Univ. of Chicago Press, 1955, 1966), p. 168f quotes a German professor in "Kronenburg" (probably Frankfurt/Main) whom Mayer interviewed between 1950 and 1954, as follows:
"Pastor Niemöller spoke for thousands and thousands of men like me when he spoke (too modestly of himself) and said that, when the Nazis attacked the Communists, he was a little uneasy, but, after all, HE was not a Communist, and so he did nothing; and then they attacked the Socialists, and he was a little uneasier, but, still, HE was not a Socialist, and he did nothing; and then the schools, the press, the Jews, and so on, and he was always uneasier, but still he did nothing. And then they attacked the Church, and he was a Churchman, and he did something--but then it was too late."
Although Pastor Niemöller was a national conservative and initially a supporter of Adolf Hitler, he became one of the founders of the Confessing Church, which opposed the nazification of German Protestant churches. He vehemently opposed the Nazis' Aryan Paragraph, but made remarks about Jews that have been called antisemitic by some scholars. For his opposition to the Nazis' state control of the churches, Niemöller was imprisoned in Sachsenhausen and Dachau concentration camps from 1937 to 1945. He narrowly escaped execution and survived imprisonment.
You either believe in freedom - be it thought, expression or ...; or you do not. Where one individual draws the line at something (in this case sexual deviance) is someone else's comfort zone.
From Pamela's website:
The difficulty of writing sex....
This image was purchased, not stolen.
Does that make this image any less offensive or to some any less pornographic Pamela?
Again - 'How many ways can you describe a tongue inside another person's mouth? How many ways are there to describe an orgasm? How many ways can you describe the sounds a person makes when they're sexually aroused or climaxing or sexually contented?'
Yes, some people do believe that this sort of writing is the work of a sick mind. Maybe we should all believe them and your website should be banned and your books banned from publication too? How would you feel to be labelled deranged, psychotic and engaging in criminal activity? Would this be right? Some would say yes!
Labelling, stereotyping, judging and criminalizing what you don't personally believe to be appropriate behaviour only works when you are the one doing it.
It could just as easily be someone else doing it to you and you having to deal with their imposed consequences. I suggest caution in what you think, say and do.
Some things to think about.
To Amber:
Amber, is there a point to your postings or are you just out to get some kind of attention?? If you don't like the topic of this blog post, or if you have something personal against Pamela Clare then plese feel free to exercise your right to "change the channel" and move on.
The topic is "If you steal books you suck"...not lets attack someone personally because we dissagree with what is being said.
So you don't agree with the blog post...are you capable of expressing that in a clear non-offensive adult manner?
I fail to see the connection to stealing content from the internet to censorship. Should I stop paying my morgage because I want to have my house for free?? And ask the guy that invented Napster how much his "free" internet content cost him!!
Should Barnes and Noble and Borders books start giving away books for free as well?
If you want to go on quoting things, let us go back to the Good Book and the Ten Commanments that say "Thou Shall Not Steal"
And if you steal...YOU SUCK!!!
Yeah, yeah, freedom of speak and all that but, Amber, WTF are you going on about girl?! You obviously love the attention but guess what?! Noone gives a s**t! And you're talking utter BS! I think if you're really a PC fan, you'd lay off her and go somewhere else to be a pain.
Sorry Pamela, this person is pissing me off.
You see what happens when I'm p****d off? Yes, I made a typo! lol. Freedom of speech is what I meant!
Hi, Amber — Thanks for sharing your perception. You have an interesting point of view, one that is shaped by ignorance about the publishing industry, misinformation and lots of assumptions. I wasn’t going to respond to you, but I don’t want anyone who reads your series of silly posts to confuse what you write with fact.
Since you don't really know me, I can't figure out how or why you'd try to tell me what I feel inside. (The same is true for attempting to offer Bonnie Vanak advice.) That's arrogant. Thanks, but I live in Boulder, the New Age capitol of the known universe. I don't need someone telling me to meditate and visualize abundance. My mind is not the problem here. Copyright infringement is.
The economy has nothing to do with my feelings about illegal downloading. I'm doing okay, thanks. But even if the economy were stressing me out, that wouldn’t matter. What matters is that illegal downloading/uploading provides something that I worked very hard to create to people who apparently feel entitled to enjoy it without paying for it or getting it for free through legal means. This is about my freedom to earn money off my work, not their “freedom to steal.”
The bottom line, which you have failed to address, is that posting an electronic copy of the book for download/uploading without permission of the copyright holder is a violation of copyright law. It is illegal. Obviously, this doesn't faze you. You seem to argue that lack of money or a desire to "test-drive" an author justifies breaking the law.
Your attempt to compare libraries with book pirating falls completely apart. There's nothing analogous between libraries and book pirating. Libraries loan out copies of the novels they buy, and people return those copies. Libraries have permission to do this. Book pirates break the law because they reproduce the book one way or another — and then give it away. Whether they like it or not, it is a violation of the law to reproduce a novel without permission of the copyright holder. Period.
(continued)
Funny - I thought this was an open discussion.
If you guys just want to bash people then go right ahead.
If you want to come to some point of understanding and see other sides of an issue, then this is the purpose of my posts.
I have no feeling towards Pamela one way or the other. I certainly don't know her personally. Neither do I make the assumption/judgement that she is a 'bad' person because she expresses an opinion that may be different to mine, or because she writes about things that some people do find offensive (and this is no news). You interpretations are incorrect if you believe either of these things.
All of the ** in these posts may be an indication of where your minds are at or simply your inability to express your opinions politely or just that your vocabulary needs some improvement.
All you are doing is giving credibility to the idea that people who read books with explicit sex scenes are of a certain mental, emotional and psychological type. Maybe you buy into that stereotype and therefore express behaviours that are reflective of it - I certainly don't.
Why do you really feel the need to be so offensive and defensive? I believe Pamela has the verbal skills to say what she wants.
Possibly you don't feel comfortable with your choice of reading material - do you subconsciously buy into the idea that it is wrong? Do you hide it from people so they won't make similar judgments about you that you have made about me? Possibly you feel guilty about some of your thoughts and feelings?
Your posts have only served to highlight some of my points. Do you know anything about me? Do you know what I read or what I believe? All I did was raise some other perspectives. The resulting venom and vituperative attacks is quite amazing!!
You want to have the freedom and safety to say what you want and I'm all for that. So do I.
However, your attempt to bully, denigrate, intimidate and brutalize someone else whose opinion is different to yours is totally off the wall and in my opinion unacceptable.
Peace to you all. Truly. Keep an open mind, cease hostility, learn to communicate respectfully, politely and courteously and you just might find that others return the favor to you.
Don't make assumptions/judgements about someone else simply because you don't like what you are hearing or seeing. All of this negative emotion only drains YOU not me.
(continued from above)
So here's what people can do if they want to read a book, but can't afford it or don't want to risk money on an author they're not sure they'll like:
1. Borrow the book from a friend. That's legal.
2. Go to the library. That's legal.
3. Go to the used bookstore (UBS). Very cheap. Legal.
4. Join a paperback swap group. Almost free. Legal.
5. Read reviews on the Internet and excerpts on author websites and blogs before you buy. Absolutely free. Legal.
These options don't involve breaking the law. They demonstrate respect for the author's craft and hard work. And they provide lots of people with hours of happy reading.
I try to buy books new because my goal is to support the authors who wrote them. But not everyone can do that. There was a time when my kids were little and I was newly divorced and I couldn't do that. That's why I went to the library or the UBS.
I know what it’s like to have no money. There was a time when I relied on food stamps and Medicaid for my kids. I finished college, got a job and worked hard so that I wouldn’t be dependent on anyone. But in those days of hardship — even when I was unemployed — I never felt that my situation justified stealing. That would have been short-sighted and selfish.
I try very hard to be there for my readers. When readers have come to me and told me that they couldn't afford a book they wanted to read, more often than not, they've found a package waiting for them sent by me at my own expense.
As for illegal downloads offering authors a chance to reach new readers... That's a really weak excuse for breaking the law. Give me a break! No one is doing authors a favor by giving our books away.
The Internet itself is a great thing. I love it both as a journalist and as an author. I'm not anti-Internet. But you seem to imply that something being "on the Internet" makes it a valid option for people. It's not. It's illegal.
What you’re trying so hard and so ineptly to justify, Amber, is a crime.
I happen to be a First Amendment expert — yes, a recognized First Amendment expert who has won awards for defending the First Amendment through my work as a newspaper editor. Copyright infringement is NOT an issue of free expression. Theft of copyrighted content is not protected under the First Amendment. I don’t know how you come up with this stuff, but its absolutely bogus. You prove how little you understand about the issue.
We’re not talking about offending people. We’re talking about theft. People can be offended by images or books, and that’s okay. Images and books are protected under the First Amendment. That has nothing at all to do with other people thinking they have the right to steal those books or images.
Also, censorship is something the government does when it suppresses free thought. Stealing is not a part of free thought. Blocking websites that enable people to break the law isn’t censorship. It’s upholding the law.
I don’t think anyone on this site has ever suggested blocking porn sites — a complete and total non sequitur on your part.
Attempting to compare the efforts of authors, filmmakers and artists to protect their rights and their property to Nazi intellectual oppression is so ridiculous that it’s laughable. Nazis killed people for thinking or speaking their hearts. They murdered millions. No publishing company or movie company or author or artist is doing that.
No one is oppressing the free development of thought by enforcing copyright laws. In fact, one could argue that free thought can’t flourish – certainly no form of art can flourish – if artists and authors and others can’t get paid for the work they do. We have to eat, too.
Also, this has nothing to do with anyone “labeling, stereotyping, judging or criminalizing” behavior we don’t agree with. It is in FACT illegal to upload/download books without permission of the copyright holder. That is a fact, If you do it, you are breaking the law.
It's that simple.
Defensive. What more is there to say?
Why would you take what I say personally Pamela? I was expressing my opinion and so were you. Arrogant? I guess you can read my mind. You yourself said that someone basically told you to chill out.
Because you live where you do - so what? Is this place somehow supernaturally imbued with enlightenment? Are all the residents automatically spiritual gurus/masters/enlightened beings?
Furthermore, is this place unique in the world? Is everyone else living in a spiritual wasteland? What exactly is your point here? Why so dismissive and defensive? I was simply expressing one perspective that's all.
Labeling my posts as silly and misinformed - well you can do that. And exactly who is being arrogant here? I am sure there are those who will buy into that. I will not get into the adjective swapping game. Regardless of your labels though, you are simply regurgitating the standard line.
Also, you are certainly free to attempt to discredit any points I raise - that is what discussion and dialogue is about. You obviously think that you are the authority on facts and anything that differs from what you present must necessarily be fiction or fantasy.
The point is that because something is law at a certain time does not mean that it is fair, just or right. The world is changing and people are redefining things.
The issue of what copyright means is being questioned all around the globe. It so happens that you benefit financially from the present status quo so you must defend it and believe that it is right.
There was a period in history when BY LAW persons of certain racial or ethnic groups were considered subhuman and therefore not worthy of the very basic human rights. Did that make it right or moral? Maybe it still exists in some people's mind but LEGALLY it has been thrown out the window.
What are you or your publishers doing about second-hand booksellers? Whenever you have a garage sale or buy something second hand, does the original developer, producer, designer, manufacturer, artist, creator receives copyright royalties on any items bought or sold? Don't you think they have the same right as you to CONTINUOUS RENUMERATION from their product?
My original point was that demonization and vigilantism is no solution. This issue is far from being settled. All I was doing was giving some alternative perspectives and insights as to why people use internet libraries. Yes libraries.
The fact that the publishing and copyright world does not endorse these libraries and feel that they alone must give permission for them to exist may be the crux of the issue plain and simple.
Obviously not everyone agrees with that. You alone know where your level of comfort lies. If it is at 'Keep pushing the standard line and only seeing your side of the fence' well that's your choice.
Doubtlessly, the future will evolve the way it will with or without all of this bashing, labelling and name-calling.
Peace be to all. I wish you no harm. Simply expressing an alternative opinion which is undoubtedless disquieting to some readers. Certainly was never the intention.
Amber,
I'm not being defensive. I'm being truthful. Taking books illegally is wrong. The law hasn't changed yet, nor is copyright going to disappear any time soon, no matter how many people think they're entitled to all the free movies, DVDs, and books they want.
I don't think my post was any more or less personal than yours. You condescendingly offered unsolicited advice to strangers (myself and Bonnie). That's arrogant. You didn't get the Boulder joke, obviously. I won't bother explaining.
A lot of people confuse opinion with fact. I think that's what you're doing here. It's your opinion that you are entitled to whatever an author writes because you want it. If it's published, you believe you and everyone on the planet has the right to it.
Do you feel that way about food? Clothing? Cars? Makeup? Shampoo? Do you steal shoes? What makes books different those things? Nothing -- except that technology has made books very easy to steal, and some people take advantage of that because it's convenient for them to do so.
And, please! There is no such thing as a legal online library.
And, yes, I am an expert on the First Amendment. Not because I say so, but because I am. When you start teaching university classes on freedom of speech issues, or when you put your life on the line for the First Amendment, please let me know. I do both of those. Until then, have the grace to realize you've been schooled.
Pamela,
Please check with your publisher or a copyright lawyer if all of recommendations are indeed legal is really correct.
According to strict reading of the copyright law, lending/borrowing a book from a friend, may technically be an infringing on copyright. This I believe may be a form of distribution since the copyright law that you are supporting explicitly states for personal use only. Personal meaning the person who bought the item - not someone else.
I guess by your recommendations you think that it is OK if you do not get any financial reimbursement each time one of your books is acquired as long as it is being done within the current existing legal statutes.
2. Go to the library. That's legal.
3. Go to the used bookstore (UBS). Very cheap. Legal.
4. Join a paperback swap group. Almost free. Legal.
Have you ever seen any statistics outlining how many of your books were acquired (and by your assumption necessarily read) by any of these modes of acquisition?
When someone uses any of these modes of acquisition to acquire one of your books do you get any financial renumeration? Doesn't that bother you at all?
If not then your issue is simply about what is currently accepted as being legal not what is really fair and therefore you do not truly buy into the premise of copyright.
If you don't care that your books are being DISTRIBUTED AKA COPYRIGHT LAW without you receiving financial remumeration, then why quibble or work yourself into an angry state when someone downloads a book from the internet and you still don't get financial renumeration?
I just don't see the logic in this. Let the publishers and copyright people deal with it. Since you are not benefiting in so many other tangible ways, your anger seems totally pointless.
Some things to think about.
'And, yes, I am an expert on the First Amendment. Not because I say so, but because I am. When you start teaching university classes on freedom of speech issues, or when you put your life on the line for the First Amendment, please let me know. I do both of those. Until then, have the grace to realize you've been schooled.'
I humbly apologize if I inadvertently touched a nerve. Where did this come from? All I said was that you had the right to your opinion and freedom of expression as do I.
Hi, Amber—
No, I don't mind when people check my book out from the library or borrow a book from a friend. Sure, it's better for me if they buy it, but if they're getting it from a library or borrowing from a friend, they're not actually reproducing the book like those who upload/download it illegally.
However, to reproduce the book and give it away opens the floodgates to anyone just taking it. And that's not fair to those of us who work so hard to write these books. It's a form of stealing because it creates a new copy of the book (which I own the copyright) and gives that book away.
Do you steal shoes? You didn't answer the question. Do you have a job, and do you expect to get paid for your work?
I know people who do this argue that they're doing no harm. But that's not true. My post was an attempt to point out that it is stealing and that the people they're stealing from are ordinary people who happen to be authors but who DESERVE a paycheck when people enjoy their writing.
I don't know what's hard to understand about that.
You're defending stealing to a person who's being stolen from. Would you defend rape to a rape victim? If you don't see what's odd about the stance you're taking or why people might react strongly to that, I can't help you.
If you don't get it, there's really nothing more to say about it, is there? Besides, this is getting boring...
'I don't think my post was any more or less personal than yours. You condescendingly offered unsolicited advice to strangers (myself and Bonnie). That's arrogant. You didn't get the Boulder joke, obviously. I won't bother explaining.'
Your interpretation that what I said was 'condescending' is simply that an interpretation and in no way reflective of my intention.
I guess when other people write and make comments/give advice that you think are in line with your views then those things were solicited?
If that is so then you should have said in your original 'you suck' post that you only wanted responses from people who agreed with your perspective and were supportive of it.
Not bothering to explain - what is that - condescension, patronization, diminuition? Obviously you don't think that your point was really worth making if you are not going to explain it in a way that I can understand.
To reiterate, this is not personal. I was simply giving another perspective. For those who have been angered by that perspective - what can I say? Labelling, finger-pointing, 'telling people off' or 'putting people in their place' achieves nothing positive and is certainly not the way to go. This is not dialogue.
Peace to all.
How does one have "dialogue" about an illegal activity and something that is morally wrong?
You're defending a crime. You're defending people whose actions harm others. And you wonder why people are astonished and put off.
I didn't anticipate that anyone would have the nerve to defend theft. I've actually given you a lot more of my time than this merits, trying to explain something to you that you obviously don't want to understand. I've had discussions with book thieves before that had very different results.
You didn't answer my very simple question. Hmm. I'll guess that you don't steal shoes (more because you don't want to get caught than because you recognize that it's wrong) and that maybe you don't have a job. If you do have a job, I'll bet you like to get that paycheck and would be really ticked off if your boss announced that you're going to work and no longer get paid for it.
I have a baseball game to catch. I didn't want to spend the money for tickets this week and I didn't want to steal tickets, so I need to listen to it on the radio. I listen on the radio because I refuse to pay for television since most stuff on TV is brainless garbage, but I won't pirate cable either. Besides, the radio is kind of fun. The broadcast is copyrighted, by the way, so I won't record it and share it with my son, who is at work and missing it. He can catch footage on the Rockies website legally later tonight.
As for this discussion, it's over. You think it's okay to steal; I don't. So enjoy those stolen books. Try to spare a thought for the author who spent countless hours writing it, thinking she'd be getting paid.
Correction:
After I closed comments on this post, I learned from a very kind reader that there are legitimate online libraries. These libraries actually are libraries, and they have authorization from publishers to loan out a certain number of e-books.
These legitimate online libraries are not the same thing as online pirate sites, such as the ones I mentioned, that illegally copy a book or upload an e-book version and then give that copy away to anyone who feels like downloading it. They are licensed to do what they do by publishers.
For those who want to make sure they're not downloading something illegally, these libraries are probably easy to distinguish because they're the same libraries you'd use to check out a hard copy version of a book.
Again, as stated, I have no problem with people borrowing books from libraries or swapping books with friends or going to used book stores. I have no problem with e-books in general, though I prefer to have an actual book in my hands when I read.
My complaint on this blog post is against sites that enable people to upload/download illegally scanned or reproduced version of authors' books. I've made that clear more than once.
As for people who argue that pirating primarily involves readers from countries where books are not available, that's not necessarily true. On one of the sites, I backtracked the members who'd uploaded and downloaded my books, and about 50 percent were from the U.S., including the woman who claimed that she wanted books to be free for everyone.
Pamela
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